Ok, this one goes back a little bit to sometime last year. Deviate has just been released, the band are just off the back of the Bruce Dickinson tour, and are gathering in the confines of the Vic in Derby just after the gig. And we’re about to start an interview. All the band are here, so we have Mark - guitar, Matt - Vocals, Ben - drums and Caroline - bass. And various members of Chokehold wandering in from time to time.

There’ll be no pictures with this interview. Basically, the band gave me permission to use a track on the CD with the last issue, "just tell the label which one", but then when I rang, I got fobbed off by the management. Which pissed me off no end. At the end of the conversation though, I was told "I can send you some pictures." But no, I’m pissed off and stubborn. So, no pictures is how this one is going to be. Anyway, this one starts off with some of the disposable music / tour style questions, then descends to some of the more serious issues that were becoming apparent at the time of the interview. And in some cases, maybe eerily preceed certain events that have happened in the States in the months since all this was spoken.

Anyway, as we settle in, introductions proceed, and it’s straight into the questions and finding out how the tour with Bruce Dickinson went?

"Really really well. We got on like a house on fire" reckons Ben. "Excellent. It was an honour. An honour to be on stage with anyone associated with the recording of Number of the Beast" says Mark. "When I was 14 years old, Number of the Beast was just the most, it was like hearing Reign In Blood for the first time. Invaders just came on and smashed your teeth in" he continues. "At the time I was into Thin Lizzy and Rainbow, and then Maiden came out with NotB and it was like, this is so fucking metal. So it was an honour to be with him." "I’ve got to say from a younger persons point of view" starts Caroline, "the crowd were amazing the way they received us, because it was just such a different style of music that we were playing to Bruce." "A lot more old school. They were looking at us at the start, and they were looking curious on their faces, and by the end of the set they were really moving, so hopefully that was a good sign" concludes Matt.

The new album, or not so new by the time you get to read this, I’m trying to decide on it. It’s like metal yet new metal. "It doesn’t fit in, and I’m proud of that" states Mark. "All the great albums, Metallica never fitted in. When they came out it was like, they’re a metal band with a punk attitude and they didn’t fit in. They broke the mould. Faith No More, no-one knew where they were coming from. Red Hot Chilli Peppers, bands like that. Bands like the Sex Pistols never really fitted in. And I think that’s a good thing. Bands like Dearly Beheaded are in the same division and directly competing with Pantera and Machine Head. You’re always going to be competing with those bands. If we don’t fit in, then we’re in our own division and we’re not competing with them, and I think that’s a really good thing.

But do you really think you can get the support these days, because it does appear that you have to fit in with one particular sub genre.

"If everyone did that, then we’d never progress. 10 years ago Nirvana broke that mould coming out from the whole underground scene" reckons Caroline as various members of Chokehold wander, loudly around the room. "It’s a proper private room this" she laughs before continuing. "Yeah, we are doing something different, and we don’t feel it’s right to just be following other bands. You’ve got to do something new. We’re doing what we want to do. There’s a lot of different musical influences and we’re just combining those to create something that we enjoy."

Once more there’s an interruption as Chokehold claim some more of their equipment and shout various things around. Once things have quietened down to a level approaching reasonable, we continue. This time I’m wondering how it feels to have suddenly gone back from playing those sold out gigs with Bruce to this, 50 people tops turning up.

"It’s sort of weird. We’re the headline band playing longer, but playing longer to smaller crowds" reasons Ben. Caroline is somewhat more philosophical. "You’ve got to start somewhere. Every band has to do it. You can’t just walk straight in and play straight in an arena unless you’re manufactured like Take That or something. We’re not doing the Take That thing." Matt picks it up. "It keeps your feet on the ground." "Exactly" concurrs Mark. "It keeps your feet on the ground. So many people can go out supporting these bands and playing to 10000 a night, and you’ll mean jack shit. Until you go out and headline and play to your own audience, it keeps your feet on the ground. I saw Fear Factory on their very first tour at Bradford Rios. And I swear there’s 25 people, and right after they played they signed autographs in front of the stage and then started moving their own equipment of the side of the stage. And you’ve got to start somewhere. Otherwise you’ll never know where you are in the pecking order." "I may change my mind" starts Ben, "but at the moment, I like setting up my own gear, my own drums. It sort of prepares you, almost wakes you up lifting all the gear" he says as Caroline enters a coughing fit. "I’ve been ill for a week" she manages to say in between coughs. Chokehold are back. "Sorry about this" she apologises. No worries, this is pretty professional in the grand scheme of things with my interviews.

Do you ever get the feeling that there’s gig that you just don’t want to do?

"Every now and then you’ll get a bad gig, but you just put up with it. You can’t have great gigs all the time, that’s the way I see it" says the quiet on the tape Ben. How do you think a band should approach a bad gig? Do the Manson style and storm off. "That’s totally unprofessional" reckons Caroline between still more coughs. "People don’t respect that, and I don’t respect it when I see it" says Matt. "You pay to go and see a band, you want to see a good show, you don’t want to see a bunch of moody bastards that just want to kick the shit out of each other onstage. You want to see people make an effort y’know" finishes Caroline who seems to be recovering now. "Sometimes, if I haven’t eaten" starts Ben, "Ben is the consumer, he eats non-stop" laughs Caroline, as Ben continues. "If you haven’t eaten and you have to play the gig, but you need the toilet or to clean your ears out, that’s when you start to think ‘I don’t want to play tonight’. But when you get sorted just before you go on you get a bit of a buzz going through you." "We always play to the best of our abilities" is a more sensible, or at least comprehensible reply from Matt. "Especially in an environment like this. If we’re headlining, it doesn’t matter how many people are there" "we’re going to do the best we can" Caroline finishes for him.

It’s an issue that was touched upon in the Bullyrag interview many issues ago now. "If it’s a bad audience from the word go, then you spend the set trying to get them into it" is Matt’s attitude in how you treat the audience. "You can treat it as a rehersal" reckons Caroline. "The audience is a big factor though" Ben continues, "if there’s a lot of people, then it’s great gig normally. If you make a mistake you can pick it up and still be ‘yeah yeah, we’re still rocking’."

Something that kind of interests me, in that sad old way, is differing attitudes towards stage divers and the whole violent dancing thing. So, time to find out the bands experiences and opinions on this.

"We’ve had a couple" Ben states in reference to the stage divers. "We had them last night, but the security wouldn’t let them get onstage" adds Caroline. So, did you see at the Bruce Dickinson gig in Nottingham where there was a stage diver? "And he got really battered by Bruce" she laughs. "Every band you play with it’s different, Bruce Dickinson in particular, there’s two things he doesn’t like, people stage diving because he thinks it hurts people and puts the crowd in danger, and he doesn’t like people smoking in the crowd near the front because he’s got a fragile voice" she finishes. And then of course, there’s the other side of the fence so to speak, as Matt takes up. "We went out with One Minute Silence the other week". You know what’s coming now don’t you? Well, if not, Caroline will fill in the rest of the details. "And it’s like, audience on the stage, all the audience get up here now." Returning to the Kill II This viewpoint is Ben, "We’re easy you know if people want to get up, get up. But we don’t want people getting hurt. Because if I’m in the pit and everyone’s jumping on top of me ..." "simple" Caroline finishes, "if you don’t want to get hurt, don’t get in the pit" before returning to the coughing fit.

At this stage the unforgivable happens. I make my usual sad excuses about not going in the pit, for one tonight, there’s not many people here, and those that are stand to watch and I don’t want to look an even bigger prat than I normally do by entertaining other people. At this point Mark reckons that’s ok "you’re a journalist." don’t tar me with that brush. "Yeah, but as far as I’m concerned you are, you’re not a punter, you write, you have an opinion which you express."

That’s as may be, but journalists or whatever are no different to the punters. They shouldn’t be treated differently. Yeah, review copies are nice, and I’m discovering pretty much essential because of costs, and so are guest lists. Purely and simply because of the sheer cost of doing something like this. It’s something as I type this interview up that I’ve been returning to time and again this issue, because it’s true. I don’t like the idea of freebies, because there is a certain concern that people may feel that you’re obliged to say complimentary things, which is wrong. But to be able to create content for an issue, it’s essential. BUT, there’s no reason why ANYONE can’t write their thoughts on a gig. That’s all I do. I write some thoughts on an album. Doesn’t make me a journalist. Makes me no different to anyone else, and my opinion is worth no more than anyone elses. Sorry, it’s something that pisses me off that people try to take advantage of a status that entitles them to nothing. And then, to make it worse, they abuse that status by paying no attention to the bands, staying at the fucking bar, and making a snap judgement on a band from there. "Oh yeah, Rage Against The Machine.". If you are going to do this stuff, do it fucking properly and with the respect that the bands deserve. I know I make judgments, "shit, another LimpKornTones band". But I do it after watching and listening. Though there’s no reason for you to believe that just because I say so. Sorry, I’ll calm down again now. By the way, in case you’d not figured, I didn’t say all that in the interview, it’s just me making a point here and now and letting off some steam again.

Anyway, Mark wants to go on to make another point. "Fanzines, this is not bullshit, this is absolutely straight, have a lot more effect on the scene than people think. In Germany particularly there’s fanzines, like one called Underground Empire, and they do like 4 or 5 thousand. And they have a big effect on the scene because you get a more honest opinion and they’re not swayed by the industry as much. They’re not on RoadRunner or Music For Nations or Century Media’s payroll." We then go off the record as the bands laundry is returned fresh from the machines by the people working at the Vic. Those essential things on tour that are forgotten about by those of us that don’t do it. Tour I mean. I do my laundry like everyone else thankyouverymuch. And don’t let anyone tell you different.

Returning to the album, it feels that there’s a bit of an anti-religious theme in there.

"Not anti religion" starts Mark, "it’s questioning. It’s definitely not anti-religion. I’ve been deeply affected by religion from my upbringing, both my parents were born again Christians, so there’s a certain amount of rebellion in there. But most of the lyrics are just very negative in general. Very bleak, dark, depressing, nihilistic. Isolation, depression, hopelessness, despair. The more negative things. I think they’re very realistic. Show me someone who says they never get depressed and I’ll show you a fucking liar. It’s as simple as that. That is the one thing linking all humanity is the fact that everyone gets depressed. All the thrash bands sang about nuclear holocaust and it didn’t happen. The Cold War ended. And I’d rather look within. All the hardcore bands sing about straight edge veganism or whatever, they preach how people should live their life. You shouldn’t smoke, you shouldn’t do drugs, you shouldn’t drink. Let’s look within. Changing the world comes from each individual. Start with yourself. So all the lyrics are very introspective. Faith Rape speaks for itself. It’s questioning having faith in the world. When I was young I actually thought the world was a wonderful place, and I grew up and I don’t think it is. Same with the lyrics to This World. They’re a direct take on Louis Armstrong. When I was growing up my grandad was a massive music fan, and he always used to play What A Wonderful World by Louis Armstrong. And that was my favourite song when I was like 8 years old. And the lyrics are like "I see trees are green, skies are blue, people passing by saying how do you do, And I think to myself, What A Wonderful World.". And the lyrics to This World are "I see the third world, Its starving face, While the spacecraft probe deep outer space ... I see the purest social holocaust, each colour each creed religion hopelessly lost and I think to myself, this world’s so fucked up, this world’s fucked up. And so it’s like a direct take on those lyrics."

Are there any solutions then. Many bands point out the problems, but no solutions.

"I don’t actually come out with solutions no. It’s more a commentary. I’ll never use lyrics as a soapbox to preach to people. If people want to be preached at they’ll go to church. If people want politics they can watch the news. It’s more questioning, more thought provoking. If you read the lyrics, they’re thought provoking. They’ll cause you to think about the subject matter, but I’m not going to preach what my solution is, because that’s just my opinion and I don’t want to ram that down people’s throats."

Time now to turn to that old favourite of yours and mine, well it is if you read the last issue and most of the interviews in this one. Jack K and the old assisted suicide.

"It’s very interesting. My sister’s a doctor. Was it euthanasia or was it suicide?" asks Mark. I explain that the guy was dying of cancer and requested that the Dr assist in his death and that it was shown on TV to highlight the situation. "Right, fascinating that. I heard nothing about that. All doctors swear an oath to prolong human life at all expense and I disagree with that. If someone has no quality of life whatsoever, they wouldn’t do it to an animal."

So do you think it’s too extreme a way of drawing attention?

"No. If someone is in pain and they have no quality of life and it’s a fatal illness that’s totally undurable, then let them move on. It’s pointless prolonging that life and pointless prolonging the suffering."

Time for a quick shifty through the questions.

Referring back to the slightly infamous, at least in my memory, interview with One Minute Silence, there was the quotes they used onstage of "we want to see everyone kill each other in the pit". Then of course there was some slight trouble with various venues in London. So, do you think there is a risk that people will take some quotes too far, and could that reflect upon the opening quote on the album that "this is a soundtrack to murder"?

"If anybody could listen to something like this is a soundtrack to murder and be affected by it, then those people are instable anyway. It’s as simple as that. You can’t censor the whole of society for the few people who are unstable. We’d take cartoons off TV because they’re the most outrageously violent thing. People just smacking each other over the head with a hammer, and then they stand up five minutes later. You cannot censor the whole of society for those few unstable. Anything could set them off. They could be walking down, see an advert on the side of the bus and it’ll send them over because they’re unstable. So if anybody listens to the intro to our album saying ‘this is a soundtrack to murder’ and is effected by it, then as far as I’m concerned, they’re not stable.

So what do you think then of the moves that are apparently happening in the States where they want to sticker and rate live gigs in the same way they want to it to albums?

"Absolute bollocks. The whole notion that music takes lives or that music is censored is utter nonsense. The idea that Judas Priest or Ozzy caused someone to commit suicide is complete nonsense. Music saves lives not take them. When I was 14 it was like a reason to live."

Yeah, I’d agree. And I think most people would, it’s not like this is telling anyone anything they didn’t already know. But, like it or not, there are people in the States (and I’m sure everywhere else) with corporations behind them, that have the power to at least try to put these beliefs and laws into place. And as Britain likes to follow the States, is there a risk that this sort of thing will follow over to the UK and say Kill II This will be banned from Woolworths?

"Very much so. That is a serious question. The worrying thing, staying on the same subject but deviating slightly is that the whole idea at the moment with the President situation in America, the second in command that they’re talking about over is Tipper Gore’s husband Al. If he gets into power and his wife has anything to do with the presidency, she ran the PMRC and she is a twisted, twisted woman. Seriously. If Tipper Gore has anything to do with the government, if her husband is in power in America, it’s going to have serious knock on effects for the whole of the country. She is a twisted fucking power nutter. Did you ever see her in court with Dee Snider and Frank Zappa?"

No, but I remember reading all the stuff with her and Jello Biafra and the Dead Kennedys Frankenchrist case, in which incidently, Frank Zappa stood up for the DKs in court if I remember correctly. I thought all this stuff though had blown over, but it appears not.

"It seemed to for a while because they went on to rap didn’t they" Mark says in reference to the PMRC.

The millenium question time.

"The whole reality of things is that when it changes to January 1st 2000, everyone’s going to wake up the next day. The world’s still going to be the same. The same problems. The third world problem, half the western world is going to be fucked up and insecure. It’s not going to be a different world, just a different day. It’s not everything it’s cracked up to be. It’s going to be the biggest party the worlds ever seen. It’s a privelige to be alive, particularly with the information and the technological advances that have happened in the last 4 decades really. It’s absolutely unbelievable. At the same time it’s another day."

Finally then, plans for the coming year?

"Touring" say Caroline. Then Mark starts again. "We’ve got four people here, and it gives me a lot of pleasure to sit here and know there are three other members of the band that don’t sit and go "yeah, there’s a tour, but what about my son back home" he says in reference to one of the former members of the band. Since the debut album, KIIT have shed everyone bar Mark. "We didn’t have a record label, but we went out and supported Megadeth. No-one can stop us, and that’s what we’ll do. Metal bands get big, through magazines to a certain extent, but by touring. It’s a live music really. It’s very energetic. So we will get out and tour." "As far as I’m concerned" pipes up Ben, "Deviate is a fucking amazing album and it deserves a lot of touring and a lot of promotion. So I want to be a part of that."

"Just to say" starts Mark to draw the interview to a timely conclusion, "I’m very good friends with the guitarist from Annihilator and I’ve toured with them. Judas Priest on their Painkiller tour was billed as JP, Annihilator and Pantera. Pantera’s Cowboys From Hell album wasn’t actually out in Europe. They went around Europe for 2 months doing pre-tour for the album. And they got booed and flipped off every night on that tour. And they went back to America saying "Europe sucks, we fucking hate Europe." Three months later they were back to do their own headline shows and their album had done 150,000 totally overnight. The whole thing was turned on it’s head. And the point I’m making is we’re not afraid. We don’t want red carpet treatment. We don’t have any dellusions of where we are"

Yep, I’m having a bit of an attitude trip this time round. Ah well, them’s the breaks.